Steve shares about a man from Indonesia named Suryan, one of IBAM’s students. Suryan went through a process where IBAM equipped partners to run the process and operate their own loan committee. He was approved and began a business cleaning helmets and shoes for people near a major university in Indonesia.

The business made sense in the local context because students drove scooters.

But the most powerful part of the story was not just the business idea. It was how Suryan understood kingdom impact through his business.

When Steve asked how he could advance the kingdom through cleaning helmets and shoes, Suryan’s answer was beautifully simple.

He said the students get to know him.
They trust him.
They begin telling him their problems.
And then his evangelism plan is simply to ask if they would like to hear how God helped him with his problems.

That is it.

No complicated performance.
No forced script.
No awkward spiritual ambush.

Just kindness, trust, and a real conversation.

Steve says Suryan taught “all the old guys” something on that trip. And honestly, he did.

Because sometimes business as mission starts with something as ordinary as doing honest work, treating people well, and being ready when trust opens a door.

When Steve asks how business owners can advance the kingdom in their role, Jim’s first answer is refreshingly direct:

Be really good at your business.

That may not sound flashy, but it may be one of the most needed reminders in the episode.

Jim gives the example of someone putting a fish symbol on a truck and expecting people to give them business because they are Christian—but then not doing a good job.

That creates a problem.

He also tells a story from his auditing days about a Christian college whose students had a bad reputation in town for writing bad checks. Steve calls it a terrible testimony, and Jim agrees.

The point is clear:

If someone is going to identify publicly as a Christian, the quality of their work matters.

Jim connects this to the idea of doing work with excellence and seeing the work itself as something God has given you to do. He is careful to clarify that this does not mean making the job an idol. It means putting work in its proper place and saying:

• This is my sphere.

• This is what God has given me.

• I am going to do it with excellence.

Whether someone is cleaning helmets and shoes or running another kind of business, the call is the same: do the work well.

Jim contrasts two different approaches to evangelism.

He remembers being part of Campus Crusade for Christ in college and knocking on dorm doors. He describes the process almost like a sales funnel: knock on 100 doors, some open, a few talk, and then there is a pamphlet.

He does not dismiss that approach. He says there was some success with it.

But he contrasts it with the plumber or business owner who does excellent work and builds trust. When someone does a great job, a relationship of trust begins to form. And because of that relationship, opportunities come.

That is a major theme in this episode:

Trust often comes before the conversation.

And trust is not manufactured. It is earned.

Jim gives simple examples:

• Remembering someone’s kids’ names

• Asking how their weekend was

• Following up about a baseball game

• Being genuinely interested

Then he adds the crucial warning: it cannot be faked.

People can sense when interest is forced. Steve agrees. Real care cannot simply be a system someone puts on.

This is where the conversation becomes both spiritual and practical. Jim says genuine care comes from the Lord. Steve connects it to being in the Word and prayer, where the fruit of the Spirit comes out.

The leadership lesson is plain:

People do not just need you to appear caring.

They need you to actually care.

Jim shares about having to let someone go from a leadership role because that person could not build team or camaraderie. No one wanted to follow them.

The issue was not merely technique. The person’s attempts at relational leadership felt stilted. Jim imitates the kind of awkward, mechanical question that people can immediately sense is not genuine.

That leads into another important leadership principle from the episode:

People work for people.

Yes, people work for a paycheck. That matters. But ultimately, Jim says people work for people. Steve adds that people quit leaders, not companies.

The way leaders treat their people becomes the environment from which those people serve customers. If employees are not loved on, Jim says, they cannot love on customers.

That may be simple, but it is not shallow.

Christian leadership in business is not only about public statements of faith. It is also about how leaders treat the people closest to them.

Jim raises a searching question for leaders:

Do you know the people who work in the warehouse, or do you only know the “big guts”?

He also mentions the receptionist and the janitor. His point is not about role hierarchy. It is about human dignity.

Jim shares that he worked his way through college washing pots and pans in a cafeteria. Some people may have looked at him differently because of that work, but he was still a person.

That experience, along with his father’s example, gave him perspective on how to treat people.

Steve connects this to the truth that people are made in God’s image.

Then Steve shares from his own experience with an organic grocery store in Florida. He says that when he goes back, he makes it a point to talk to the hourly staff—not just the leaders. Even if he only has one minute, he wants to look at them, say their name, acknowledge them, and ask how they are doing.

That is not complicated.

But it matters.

Jim agrees and says leaders have to get out of the office and walk around. As companies grow, leaders may not be able to relate in exactly the same way they once did, but they still need to be present.

Steve adds that if you are the leader, people often will not tell you the truth unless you go search for it.

That line is worth sitting with.

Leadership that stays insulated will miss things.
Leadership that walks around may hear what needs to be heard.

Steve asks Jim about the opportunity business as mission presents both internationally and locally.

Jim says he thinks the model should work everywhere because it is the same. He notes that internationally, some people may be more open to using the model, while in the Western world people may assume they already know how to do things.

But he also says there are people in the United States who are hungry, want to learn, and want to do right.

His belief is straightforward:

Truth is truth, wherever it is applied. God’s plan works everywhere.

Jim then reflects on people in his local church who tried to start businesses and could have benefited from being part of IBAM and having structure or a framework. He notes that churches are often not set up to provide that kind of business help.

Sometimes a pastor may simply say, “Call Steve. He’s a business guy.”

But the issue is that not every business person has a system they can hand off. And not every person has the margin to help directly.

That is where Jim sees opportunity: helping pastors see business as an extension of ministry and giving them a tool that can function like a partnership.

Jim says pastors have a lot coming at them: crises, prayer needs, and the needs of the church. They may not have time to help someone run a business.

But if the sacred and secular can be brought together, business can be seen as an extension of ministry.

Steve adds that IBAM is partnering with a church in Seattle and one in Houston. In each case, a champion on the church team will lead the work. One effort is being tied to a church plant. Steve calls that a strategic way to use it.

He explains that these churches are in affluent areas and are going into middle-income and lower-income areas to provide opportunity.

The conversation does not overcomplicate the point.

For business as mission to work through churches, there needs to be:

• A shared understanding that business can be ministry

• A structure or framework

• A local champion

• A willingness to provide opportunity

• Partnership rather than pastors carrying everything alone

Jim believes the model can work both globally and locally.

Near the end, Steve asks Jim to tell the story of his adopted daughter.

Jim shares that his daughter is now 18, a senior in high school, and student body president at her Christian school. He describes her as someone who gets along with everybody, likes to help and serve, and is involved in planning student activities.

Then he tells how he met her in Haiti in 2010 after the earthquake.

Jim was there with a group of pastors, showing them the work being done. Part of that work involved feeding children at orphanages through Convoy of Hope. He had been to many orphanages before and had played with many children on mission trips.

But on this day, a little girl was crying.

He picked her up.

She was almost three. He held and comforted her. She fell asleep, and he held her for about an hour. She became his buddy for the rest of the time he was there.

When he returned home, he told his wife he could not stop thinking about that little girl.

The adoption process moved in an unusual direction. Normally, Jim explains, someone decides to adopt, picks a country, and is matched with a child. In this case, they had met the child first and worked backward.

It was not easy. Haiti had shut down adoptions for a time after the earthquake because of infrastructure issues and human trafficking concerns. There were new stipulations from the United States. Jim says it was not for the faint of heart, and his wife felt like she was pregnant for three years.

But because of Convoy of Hope staff in Haiti, they were able to visit her a couple times a year.

When she came home, she knew them.

On the flight home, they were upgraded to first class. Jim says she went from orphan to first class. When offered a drink or cookie, she wanted everything. And when the plane took off, she looked out the window and said, “Bye, bye, Haiti.”

Steve and Jim both connect the story to grace. Jim says it is like God saying, “Okay,” just like He does with all of us. They call it a picture of all of us and a picture of what it will be like in heaven.

Jim says people often say they did so much for her, but he does not see it that way. She blessed their family.

This episode is not a call to make business less practical.

It is a call to make business more faithful.

Be excellent.
Care genuinely.
Treat people well.
Walk around.
Know names.
Build trust.
Create opportunity.
Use structure.
See business as mission.
And stop assuming your work is less sacred because it does not happen inside a church building.

For the Christian business owner, entrepreneur, leader, or church member wondering whether their everyday work matters, this conversation offers a clear and encouraging answer:

Yes, it does.

And sometimes the kingdom advances through the simplest things:

A clean helmet.
A remembered name.
A conversation in an office.
A leader who walks the floor.
A church willing to see business as ministry.
A family saying yes to a child they could not forget.

Faithfulness may be closer than you think.

Watch full episode on YT - https://youtu.be/Mn296aVaG9U

Listen to full episode on itunes/spotify - https://open.spotify.com/episode/7x3GaTpxbjsNOT9fv3KT9X?si=Afjn4SEqT9yOKRnX3rwWjA

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Read Part 1 here: https://www.ibam.org/faith-and-work-how-christian-leaders-stay-grounded-when-success-demands-more