As Shawn stepped into higher levels of leadership, he realized something important:

His marketing degree didn’t fully prepare him for the challenges he was facing.

That led him to join a peer advisory group called C12—a network of Christian business leaders.

Inside that environment, he found:

• Wisdom from experienced leaders

• Shared business practices

• Counsel that shaped his leadership journey

“What I probably gleaned the most was actually just the counsel and wisdom in the room.”

This experience marked a turning point—not just in how he led, but in how he understood the relationship between faith and work.

At first, integrating faith into work looked like a checklist.

• Pray before meetings

• Lead a Bible study

• Create “spiritual moments” at work

These are all good things.

But Shawn realized something was missing.

“I kind of even bifurcated those things… here’s the task associated with that, and then here’s what I need to do with my work.”

Faith became something added onto work…
instead of something that shaped everything within it.

This is where many people find themselves:

• Doing spiritual activities

• While still seeing work as separate

But that perspective didn’t last.

Over time, Shawn’s understanding began to change.

Instead of asking: “What should I do for God at work?”

He began asking: “How does the gospel shape everything I do?”

That shift changed everything.

“Doing your work with excellence is part of bringing the gospel to the marketplace.”

Faith was no longer a category.

It became the lens.

• How you lead

• How you serve

• How you treat people

• How you show up every day

This is what true integration looks like.

A major theme in the conversation is the idea that people don’t actually compartmentalize their lives.

Even if we try to separate things…

• Work life

• Personal life

• Spiritual life

…it doesn’t hold.

“They don’t compartmentalize their life… they bring their full self to work.”

This has important implications for leadership:

• You’re not just managing roles

• You’re leading whole people

And when you engage people at that level, the impact goes far beyond productivity.

It creates space for:

• Growth

• Reflection

• Transformation
  
  
  

The conversation introduces the idea of “business as ministry.”

At first, this concept can feel limited to specific activities:

• Prayer groups

• Bible studies

• Explicit spiritual conversations

But the definition expands.

Business as ministry becomes:

👉 The way you do your work
👉 The way you serve people
👉 The excellence you bring to your role

It’s not just about what you say.
It’s about how you live and lead.

One of the most important ideas discussed is the concept of “sacred” vs “secular” work.

This divide suggests:

• Ministry = sacred

• Business = secular

But that separation is challenged directly.

“This idea of like well this is just the secular thing that I do…”

The problem with this mindset:

• It diminishes the value of work

• It creates unnecessary guilt

• It leads to striving instead of joy

Instead, the conversation reframes work as something inherently meaningful.

When work is seen as separate from faith, it often feels heavy.

• Pressure increases

• Expectations feel unclear

• Effort turns into striving

But when that perspective shifts, something changes.

“They find joy versus that idea… it just feels like striving.”

Integration leads to:

• Clarity

• Purpose

• Energy

Work becomes less about obligation…
and more about participation.

Another powerful contrast in the conversation is between two ways of working:

Flesh Power

• Limited energy

• Short-lived effort

• Driven by self

Spirit Power

• Sustained energy

• Ongoing strength

• Empowered beyond self

“Flesh… has a very short shelf… when we’re empowered by the Spirit… it’s never ending.”

This distinction helps explain why work can feel so different depending on how it’s approached.

One of the most impactful ideas in the conversation is this:

👉 The goal is not just to do things for God
👉 It’s to do them with Him

This shift changes the posture of work.

Instead of:

• Task completion

• Performance mindset

• Endless to-do lists

It becomes:

• Partnership

• Presence

• Relationship

“I want you to just do this with me.”

At the heart of the conversation is a simple but profound truth:

👉 When faith and work are integrated, life becomes more whole

• Less compartmentalization

• Less striving

• More joy

“If we would just… integrate faith into everything we do, we’ll find a lot more joy.”

This isn’t about adding more to your plate.
It’s about seeing your plate differently.

If you’ve ever felt like your work is:

• Separate from your faith

• Less meaningful than ministry

• Just a means to an end

This conversation offers a different perspective.

Your work isn’t outside your calling.
It may be one of the primary places it’s lived out.

Watch full episode on YT - https://youtu.be/RAYfkibVrV8

Listen to full episode on itunes/spotify - https://open.spotify.com/episode/1PY6KpS8YQpfIfQusHZJGY?si=WsjZw5IPSMKliQ4YdthGdw

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